Thread: Really Random thread

I think I know what you mean. I got tired of recreating stuff for 2 reasons:

1. My (like yours) standards are so high that it would take an unrealistic amount of time to actually achieve the sort of accuracy set by watever I was copying. But maybe I just need to know when to stop improving on the basic creation formula. I did got a little over the top with some things, and I can accept that maybe sometimes being a perfectionist can seriously hinder work unless it matches your goals.

2. There is less creating. The thing your making has already been done, and by re-making it the creativity is lost. There is no new story to tell, or new secrets for the audience to be exposed to. For me it turned a fun task into a bit of a chore, and I lost the drive to complete my stuff. But I find that when I'm working on something I actually created from the ground up, my drive to complete it was strong enough that the final product was more worthwhile… and that I would actually have a final product. Even if you are trying to use a formula (like Ratchet & Clank) to make a new adventure, I feel there are ground rules keeping you from really making it the adventure we want to make. I guess actual game companies can feel the same way sometimes, like LBP and MGS creators, always wanting out to create something new or Insomniac changing Overstrike to Fuse because they felt too restricted, and held back by it's core concepts.

I decided to play around with Sackbots this afternoon, and realised that in 3 hours I essentially made an unarmed Ratchet.
The end product, while pretty cool, takes WAY too muc work to accomplish. I'd rather spend 3 hours making a level around Sackboy than making a new playable character for my level.

What I normally do is create a sackbot with exactly the same stuff Sackboy would have first, and then while I'm making the level I have both to play around with. But the important pars are:

1. Making the Sackbot have emotions exactly like Sackboy to fool the player
2. The above mixed with actually having the popit controllable cab be a tough task
3. Making them spawn right. Usually I just allow the bot to be killed and spawn another one with Sackboy, but that means I need to have the bot's all wireless.
4. Making multiplayer work, by having 4 different uniquely identifiable bots, that spawn as they are needed.

Once you've got those 4 basics nailed down you can go ahead with an anazing level, and just add a few tricks here and there to both the level and the bot as they're needed.

One doesn't really need to stick with controlling Ratchet - you can just play as Sackboy and have Ratchet coaching you all the time much like the Curators from Stories.

So I guess forming a crew would be a good start (even though that's usually where we halt during every project).

I could write the story and speech bubbles and stuff as well as cooperate with someone who will design the gameplay of the level (yeah I suck at appearance).

These are the questions we need to ask:

1. Who has the most content from story levels and DLC? - This person should be the host for the level creation
2. Who can develop the best plot? - This person will be the director. It is worth noting that this is the job everyone notes, so we'd need a fair judging system.
3. Who is the best costume designer?
4. Who is the best level designer?
5. Who is the best music person?
6. Who can do the best logic?


My answers to those would be…
1. I have 100% all story levels (LBP1 and 2) and DLC level kits (that is all prizes and aces). I also have roughly just under half of the costumes on the store.
2. I don't have time right now, but I will post something later.
3. I do not wish to do this.
4. I don't think I'm the worst level designer, or the best for that matter.
5. I can't create music. But if there are any tracks you want from LBP Vita, I can 'bring them over'.
6. I the past I have been able to make functional logical thingies. But since then I have discovered that they were pretty inefficient. If anyone can do logic better than me, then feel free to take over. If not, then I suppose I can do it.

1. My vote would go for you. I have aquired a good chunk of the DLC lately, but I'm still missing Move and Cross-Controller, which could be considered crucial.

2. This depends on the level. All members should create a basic premiese before deciding this one.

3. This one largely depends on DLC, so I guess the same person from the first answer.

4. Aster.

5. LBP1.

6. Depends on the level aswell.

Here is one idea for how this story might go:

The origins story of Ratchet & Clank is becoming a very popular topic of discussion with the releases of the HD Trilogy bringing us those early adventures once again, a movie re-envisioning the first adventure, and even another game coming out on PS4 with a similar goal as the movie.

So why don't we do this for LBP2? Re-envision Ratchet & Clank meeting up, and their quest to take down their first villain. Little is known about the movie and PS4 games plot, but we do know there will be Nefarious. So here is my attempt at creating a story suitable for a couple of LBP2 levels.


Underlying plot: I'm going to go full-on unoriginal here, and actually use an unused story I came up with a few years ago… what? I'm feeling lazy! Anyway, basically it will all be much closer to the way LBP story levels are done, by having an underlying community link, (like MGS's level spammer, and the collector's stealing).

Everyone is aware that from time to time mysterious things happen for no apparent reason. And a LBP creator curator named Drek is experiencing some serious trouble making levels. He is a professional with Sackbot logic, and is known for breathing life into the little creatures. Well at least he would if if Moon wasn't playing up. Every time he tries to publish a level the level vanishes from his moon instead! Becoming enraged he refuses to let it rest. He comes up with a plan to actually steal other people's moons, and use them to publish his levels. But he goes overboard, and steals way too many moons, in the hopes of creating enough levels so that his Sackbots can be found in every player's inventory, and in every community level. He will be the greatest creator of all time!

But at the end of the day the real villain is Dr. Nefarious! Who sabotaged Drek's levels, knowing how he'd react so that he could take over LBP by flipping a switch to make all of Drek's Sackbots work for him. And with such a large army, he'd be unstoppable.


This seems like a big line of levels, but really we can compress it as much as we want. But the real question is weather we have:

Sackboy & Clank
Ratchet & Sackboy
or Ratchet, Clank and Sackboy

I'll explain them

Sackboy and Clank

Sackboy is running about in his latest level: Veldin, where he's created a cool new rocket ship he can use to visit other people's moons. Too bad he's unable to finish it off. Luckily one of Drek's not-so-evil Sackbots crash-lands in his level, searching for assistance. Clank explains it all to Sackboy, and before you know it we're off!

Ratchet & Sackboy

We start in one of Drek's Sackbot creation facilities. Sackboy is his latest creation. A perfectly normal Sackboy, but with a few hidden abilities (Like controlling other Sackbots with your 'mind'. So Sackboy escapes the facility via an inter-moon shuttle and crash lands on Ratchet's moon, where you help him with his ship so that the 2 of you can stop Drek (Use Infobot to explain it to Ratchet, because Sackboy can't speak)

Ratchet, Clank & Sackboy

Sackboy is helping Ratchet with his ship, by collecting parts scattered across Planet Veldin. Then a ship crashlands nearby. Ratchet asks you to check it out, and before you know it you've got a little robotic sidekick, Clank. You and Clank reprt back to Ratchet, and Clank explains the whole thing! As the 3 of you try to gather more info on where Drek's moon is you meet all sorts of characters, like Al, Helga, Qwark, the Rangers, the President, Skidd, and a Blarg Scientist (A friendly Sackbot of Drek's). Before finally getting to Drek's moon and blowing it up! But then you need to go through Nefariouses evil Sackbots to stop Nefarious in a final battle!

I like the 3rd option the most, and the levels could go as follows:

1. Cincematic - Intro Ratchet
2. Level - Help Ratchet, find Clank, and report back to Ratchet
3. Cincematic - Intro Clank, and reveal Drek's plan
4. Level - Explore Metropolis. There are 2 paths, one where Al gives Sackboy the Cape halfway through, and one where Helga gives Sackboy the Swingshot helfway through.
5. Level - The phoenix. The President has asked for some help, and you must fight through Drek's evil troops with your wall-kick ability. Eventually to make your way to the Bridge, where you save the president, who tells you of an expert who knows where to find Drek.
6. Level - On Aridia you find Skidd, who claims to be the expert, and gives you the Creatinator, which you use to find the real expert, one of Drek's Sackbots; a 'Blarg Scientist'. This guy tells you where to fins Drek.
7. Level and Boss - Drek's moon - Using some powerups you stop Drek's machines and eventually Drek himself.
8. Level - Drek's worst creation reveals himself as Dr. Nefarious. You must fight through the army to stop Nefarious!
9. Boss - You fight and destroy Nefarious and the Moon!
10. Cinematic - End.

If it's too long, then numbers 3, 5, 9 and 10 are disposable!

So this would be between 6 and 10 levels long, if you choose my option.

I like the third option the most, as not having both characters would feel off.

Anyway, Level 3 could easily be part of Level 2 and I think 5 is too odd. We could go for a hub level similar to The Watchtoer from the DC DLC though.
Also, I think the Nefarious boss should come before the final level, and then the final level would be your typical "Escape from exploding ship/base" segment found in most Ratchet and Clank games.

I also have to make some observations to some of your level ideas:

Level 2: I like it, it seems more like an exploration level rather than the normal point A to B levels in LBP.

Level 4: I don't know how two paths would work, unless you're planning on doing two ways to beat the level as opposed to two different sections of the level. You'd have to cleverly remove a way for players to go to the other path since you're planning on giving the player different power-ups depending on which ath they take.

Level 6: Chould probably include the Paintinator?
I don't know, I always liked it better than the Creationator for some reason.

Level 7: This one should be divided into sections.
The player is dropped in a main area where several doors/elevators/portals are be marked by a sticker of the power up they'll be using in the particular section the door/elevator/portal leads to. This will give the player a sense of freedom on how they want to take on the level, which is always good.

Just putting in my 2 cents tough, no need to take anything into consideration.

okay, here is a more elaborate plan then (Please excuse me being 'to-the-point' as I wrote a post before, that was completely DELETED due to me being logged out, and a lot of time was lost)


1. Introduction - Intro cinematic with Clank's escape, followed Ratchet talking to Sackboy about his ship.

2. Veldin - You go across Veldin collecting parts for Ratchet's ship, and then once you've got all but 1 of them a ship crash lands on the planet. Ratchet asks you to investigate. You find Clank. You bring him back, and he acts as a final component. He also claims to have details on an evil plot that puts all of LBP's community as risk. Clank recommends they go to the Starship Phoenix and see what information they can dig up.

3. The Starship Phoenix - At the Phoenix there are 3 main areas: The bridge, where briefing will take place after missions. Ratchet's ship, where they can visit the levels thy have unlocked. And the VR deck which has some VR missions. On their first visit, Clank leads the briefing, and tells us about Drek's plans, and the President recommends going to Metropolis and locating Qwark, to help them find and fight Drek.

4. Metropolis - On Metropolis there are 2 paths. One goes left, the other right. If you go left you will have some platforming to do on the fitness course. Upon completing it you will meet Helga who gives you the Swingshot and unlocks a door for you to meet Qwark at his home. Then gives you the Swingshot after stealing some of your points. You use the Swingshot to return across the now harder fitness course to the start. If you go right you will have some Blarg to fight as you make your way to Al's Roboshack. Al unlocks a door, and you can use one of his gadgets the Capinator, to getup to the Train, which returns to a point just above the start of the level. Once both doors are unlocked there will be a path leading down from the start of the level. Here you can use a special button (lets say L2) to toggle the powerups between Cape and Swingshot, to get to Qwark's home. You use a teleporter at Qwark's house to get back to the start, where your ship is, and return to the Phoenix.

5. Aridia - After Qwark gives one of his presentations at the Phoenix you can travel to Aridia to meet with a "scientific genius" friend of his. This friend turns out to be Skidd (you use the Wall jump move to get there, Ratchet teaches you this), and he gives Sackboy the Paintinator. You use the Paintinator to complete the rest of the level, and find a Blarg Scientist who knows how to stop Drek, and is willing to swap sides.

6. Drek's Moon - After the Scientist reveals where Drek's Moon is, Sackboy goes to Drek's moon, and there are 3 paths. Each for a different power-up, and to shut down separate Sackbot creating machines: The Blarg Sackot machine can be shut down with the use of the Swingshot, and the help of Qwark. The Robot Sackbot machine can be shutdown with help from Clank and the use of the Wall jump and Capinator. And the Elite Blarg machine can be shut down with help from Ratchet and the Paintinator.

7. Showdown with Drek - After shutting them all down the heroes return to the Phoenix, where another plan is drawn up by the scientist to take down Drek using his own super weapon, the Demoonitizer. So they go to Drek's Moon once more, for a great boss battle. Sackboy manages to defeat Drek and activate the countdown on the Demoonitizer. Sackboy must do some platforming to escape in time! If you don't make it then it blows up the moon and you start the chase again (or the boss, if you want). Otherwise they make it just in time for one of Drek's Sackbots to stop the countdown. Dr. Nefarious! Dr. Nefarious pauses the timer, and the heroes return to the Phoenix.

8. Showdown with Dr. Nefarious - At the Phoenix Dr. Nefarious contacts the heroes and details who he is, how he pulled of his genius plan, and what he aims to do now that it has worked. Ratchet & Clank decide their help is needed here, and they join Sackboy, but Qwark cowers out. So with Ratchet and Clank stunning Nefarious in between attacks, Sackboy can damage the robotic menace. But Qwark swoops in right at the end to deliver the final blow. And once that is done, the Demoonitizer is fired up again, and this time as they all leave the moon blows up (this time there is no need for a runaway segment). And then a final briefing at the end.

So overall there will be the following levels:

Intro - Cinematic
Starship Phoenix - Hub
Veldin - Level
Metropolis - Level
VR Deack - Side level (optional, and only available after Helga is brought in)
Aridia - Level
Drek's Moon - Level
Showdown with Drek - Boss
Showdown with Dr. Nefarious - Boss

The following NPCs will be added the the Phoenix:

- The President
- Ratchet
- Clank
- Rangers
- Qwark (after Metropolis)
- Al (after Metropolis)
- Helga (after Metropolis)
- Skidd (after Aridia)
- Blarg Scientist (after Aridia)

Personally, I like the changes thanks to your input Darkstar.

But it is however unconfirmed weather we will go with this idea. And if anyone else has a plot idea, I'm happy to read.

I decided to agree with your plot, RR. There are just few things that bug me.

-Boss fights:
I guess putting one boss after another is… strange. The Drek boss fight could be cut, really. After Sackboy destroys those three generators, the moon would start falling apart (why moon, actually, it could be his station which organizes the moons). Sackboy comes into the control room, but he desn't understand how does the thing work - so he lets in Dr. Nefarious, even though there is a sign not to let in any robots.
Instead we could put in one mini-boss fight (that RR actually thought up once, a few years ago on LBPC) with Qwark on Metropolis. Qwark would just mistake Sack for some villain (because he can fly with the cape and stuff) so he tries to beat him.

-Characters:
Maybe there is waaay to much NPC's, maybe I just don't like large numbers of characters.
What's a bigger question, however, is how the characters are made. The Sackbots solution is there, of course, but these characters have different bodies. See Qwark, Helga, the Blargs, Skidd or even Neffy. They look tough to recreate as a costume.
Or else we can follow the LBP1 style. Maybe find someone who can paint well (although we'd have to be very lucky) or just do some work with the stickers. However, the size would be a problem, because we would either have Sackboy traversing a city too large for him or the characters would be gigantic for the means of the city.

Yeah, currently I'm to lazy to write something, but it would be way too similiar to RR's idea, so…
But that actually excludes me from the project, because plot and directing is the only part that would work for me, besides level design which will be Darkstar's work.

I decided to agree with your plot, RR. There are just few things that bug me.

You've got guts…

-Boss fights:
I guess putting one boss after another is… strange. The Drek boss fight could be cut, really. After Sackboy destroys those three generators, the moon would start falling apart (why moon, actually, it could be his station which organizes the moons). Sackboy comes into the control room, but he desn't understand how does the thing work - so he lets in Dr. Nefarious, even though there is a sign not to let in any robots.
Instead we could put in one mini-boss fight (that RR actually thought up once, a few years ago on LBPC) with Qwark on Metropolis. Qwark would just mistake Sack for some villain (because he can fly with the cape and stuff) so he tries to beat him.

Well originally I thought it was strange, and that's why I decided to put it out there. I mean it would catch everyone off guard, especially seeing as how we set up Drek like the grand finale, and even have the place fall apart as Sackboy flees. Otherwise we could just have Nefarious interrupt the fight and have him as a sort of part 2 to the overall Boss showdown!?

And it could very well be a space station. Either way would work just fine. In fact the space station might be more appropriate as a gigantic Demoonitiser?

And there is a minor problem with Qwark. Metropolis, as it is will be the hardest level to make (any surprises? No? Okay then.) With 3 different branching pathways, 2 of which will return to the start, and of course there would be the whole overall look of the city too.

-Characters:
Maybe there is waaay to much NPC's, maybe I just don't like large numbers of characters.
What's a bigger question, however, is how the characters are made. The Sackbots solution is there, of course, but these characters have different bodies. See Qwark, Helga, the Blargs, Skidd or even Neffy. They look tough to recreate as a costume.
Or else we can follow the LBP1 style. Maybe find someone who can paint well (although we'd have to be very lucky) or just do some work with the stickers. However, the size would be a problem, because we would either have Sackboy traversing a city too large for him or the characters would be gigantic for the means of the city.

The LBP1 style is probably going to look very out of place. But I agree that Nefarious will be tricky to make. Hardly anyone could pull that one off! Qwark, Skidd and the Blarg we can probably find ways for them to work. And Helga and Al might have to get slimmed down a bit. I originally though it might be fun to pack it full of old NPCs to really give it the R&C feel we are all familiar with. Fans love that sort of stuff.

Yeah, currently I'm to lazy to write something, but it would be way too similiar to RR's idea, so…
But that actually excludes me from the project, because plot and directing is the only part that would work for me, besides level design which will be Darkstar's work.

Level design is something we are all doing. We can't sit back and leave it all up to one person. I'd imagine that Darkstar, me, Aster, Kubak and you (I sure hope I'm not forgetting someone) will all be just as useful as level designers. Level design is a massive task after all. I mean that is the most important things to a game: Level design and appearances. The logic and music is all just built around those basic concepts.

You've got guts…

Well, I'm alive so that's logical…

Well originally I thought it was strange, and that's why I decided to put it out there. I mean it would catch everyone off guard, especially seeing as how we set up Drek like the grand finale, and even have the place fall apart as Sackboy flees. Otherwise we could just have Nefarious interrupt the fight and have him as a sort of part 2 to the overall Boss showdown!?

And it could very well be a space station. Either way would work just fine. In fact the space station might be more appropriate as a gigantic Demoonitiser?

And there is a minor problem with Qwark. Metropolis, as it is will be the hardest level to make (any surprises? No? Okay then.) With 3 different branching pathways, 2 of which will return to the start, and of course there would be the whole overall look of the city too.

Actually… well, I still remember the disappointment at the end of Roller Inc. 2 Maybe put Drek as a surprisingly easy boss… that would cause less confusion.
What if Drek has just turned his space station into a Demoonitizer? That Blarg scientist might have just been fired (literally, in an escape pod) because he sympathized for all the people who were about to lose their moon.
"For example [Insert famous creator's name]…"
-The scientist

The LBP1 style is probably going to look very out of place. But I agree that Nefarious will be tricky to make. Hardly anyone could pull that one off! Qwark, Skidd and the Blarg we can probably find ways for them to work. And Helga and Al might have to get slimmed down a bit. I originally though it might be fun to pack it full of old NPCs to really give it the R&C feel we are all familiar with. Fans love that sort of stuff.

Good luck with the costumes then. It's bothering me that we don't get a glimpse at neither Blargs nor Neff in their movie versions.

Level design is something we are all doing. We can't sit back and leave it all up to one person. I'd imagine that Darkstar, me, Aster, Kubak and you (I sure hope I'm not forgetting someone) will all be just as useful as level designers. Level design is a massive task after all. I mean that is the most important things to a game: Level design and appearances. The logic and music is all just built around those basic concepts.

Okay. Well, just don't count on me with cinematics, really.

And one more thing. Go and test the Paintinator now. I'm getting a bug that the option 'reset when full' (EDIT: in the Paint sensor) doesn't work.

I'm speechless. Yes, maybe a few updates to it would work but heck that's Awesome!

Wow! That's impressive Darkstar